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Old 05-18-2017, 05:25 AM   #1
Snglsmkr
 
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Lightbulb Disk brake anyone?

I'm exploring the idea of converting the front binders to a disk on my 74 DT360. Having a stronger brake up front would be helpful when riding in traffic. I'm fishing for information from those who may have done this or tried this and ran into a show stopper issue. Changing the triple clamps and forks would be fair game.
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Old 05-18-2017, 09:15 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snglsmkr View Post
I'm exploring the idea of converting the front binders to a disk on my 74 DT360. Having a stronger brake up front would be helpful when riding in traffic. I'm fishing for information from those who may have done this or tried this and ran into a show stopper issue. Changing the triple clamps and forks would be fair game.
We don't use brakes here. We lean the bike and gas it around anything that is in our way..

Seriously, I don't think anyone here has gone discs on a vintage bike > ?

But welcome to our world here... But, do keep the front and rear brake shoes clean and replaced, as they have been known to de-laminate and throw riders off !!


asco
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Old 05-18-2017, 09:17 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snglsmkr View Post
I'm exploring the idea of converting the front binders to a disk on my 74 DT360. Having a stronger brake up front would be helpful when riding in traffic. I'm fishing for information from those who may have done this or tried this and ran into a show stopper issue. Changing the triple clamps and forks would be fair game.
We don't use brakes here. We lean the bike, gas it around anything that is in our way..

Seriously, I don't think anyone here has gone discs on a vintage bike > ?

But welcome to our world here... But, do keep the front and rear brake shoes clean and replaced, as they have been known to de-laminate and throw riders off !!


asco
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Old 05-18-2017, 11:06 AM   #4
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Drum brakes on these ol' bikes do suck if they aren't set up right.

I have successfully added hydro disc brakes to 2 or 3 different bikes - front and back. it isn't too terribly hard. You will need to locate a compatible wheel with a rotor, then fabricate a mount for the cylinder and add the handle bar reservoir and lever .

You can source most of the hydraulic parts from a chinese scooter real cheep - less than $25.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Baotian-Jinlun-Jonway-Hydraulic-FRONT-DISC-BRAKE-CALLIPER-Chinese-Scooter-125cc-/162486807103?hash=item25d4f7ea3f:gNQAAOSwUKxYkJ3 Z

http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-8-Quad-Bik...4AAOSwdGFY4QK~

I have even sourced those 2 parts combined and complete with hose.

I suspect you can source a wheel with rotor from a newer dirt bike - maybe $50 if you are lucky. Sourcing a new wheel is WAY easier than trying to mount the rotor on an existing wheel. They need to be pretty centrically true.
sample if right size =
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-Honda-C...JYr4dO&vxp=mtr

prolly the toughest thing is the fabrication of the cylinder mount. I usually engineer in cardboard, then transfer that to a metal piece. You will need somewhere to bolt that mount to the forks somehow. There are usually some bolt holes for fender mounts somewhere on the forks. Forks are not weld friendly (holds oil with seals and such) , so using existing bolt holes is the preferred process.

Front wheels are easier to convert since the axel is stationary. The rear wheel axel moves (to adjust the chain) and adds complications to the cylinder mount. The cylinder must stay in place concentric to the axel and true to the rotor. I usually weld the mount to one of the wheel spacers so it is fixed to the axel radius. Then slot that to a key welded on the swing arm. It allows the mount to move with the axel. Sorry, this is hard to explain in words.

I do have pictures if you all want more info on rear hydro brake installs.
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:22 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5stringz View Post
Drum brakes on these ol' bikes do suck if they aren't set up right.

I have successfully added hydro disc brakes to 2 or 3 different bikes - front and back. it isn't too terribly hard. You will need to locate a compatible wheel with a rotor, then fabricate a mount for the cylinder and add the handle bar reservoir and lever .

You can source most of the hydraulic parts from a chinese scooter real cheep - less than $25.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Baotian-Jinlun-Jonway-Hydraulic-FRONT-DISC-BRAKE-CALLIPER-Chinese-Scooter-125cc-/162486807103?hash=item25d4f7ea3f:gNQAAOSwUKxYkJ3 Z

http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-8-Quad-Bik...4AAOSwdGFY4QK~

I have even sourced those 2 parts combined and complete with hose.

I suspect you can source a wheel with rotor from a newer dirt bike - maybe $50 if you are lucky. Sourcing a new wheel is WAY easier than trying to mount the rotor on an existing wheel. They need to be pretty centrically true.
sample if right size =
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-Honda-C...JYr4dO&vxp=mtr

prolly the toughest thing is the fabrication of the cylinder mount. I usually engineer in cardboard, then transfer that to a metal piece. You will need somewhere to bolt that mount to the forks somehow. There are usually some bolt holes for fender mounts somewhere on the forks. Forks are not weld friendly (holds oil with seals and such) , so using existing bolt holes is the preferred process.

Front wheels are easier to convert since the axel is stationary. The rear wheel axel moves (to adjust the chain) and adds complications to the cylinder mount. The cylinder must stay in place concentric to the axel and true to the rotor. I usually weld the mount to one of the wheel spacers so it is fixed to the axel radius. Then slot that to a key welded on the swing arm. It allows the mount to move with the axel. Sorry, this is hard to explain in words.

I do have pictures if you all want more info on rear hydro brake installs.
This is helpful information 5stringz. Your descriptions are fine. I understood them well. It is time to start gathering some parts!
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Old 05-19-2017, 04:00 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASCOT TT View Post
We don't use brakes here. We lean the bike, gas it around anything that is in our way..

Seriously, I don't think anyone here has gone discs on a vintage bike > ?

But welcome to our world here... But, do keep the front and rear brake shoes clean and replaced, as they have been known to de-laminate and throw riders off !!


asco
Hi ascott TT - delaminated linings sound like big trouble. I wonder if this is caused by age, heat, quality control or a combination of factors. My '72 R5 is ridden frequently and I suspect the same delam issue could effect her. By the way, the R5 has been in my family since 1972. I rescued her in the mid 90s from her retirement home of an old barn after her service as my uncle's first street Yamaha, then a utility vehicle of sorts on his farm then put away when the countershaft sprocket was well rounded. She has been kept as original as practicle. Some items like NOS seat bases, foam and covers I could not find. The DT360 was purchased as a project. She goes well but doesn't slow down quite so well! When riding alone it is not an issue, but with others I may be the only one floating through the yellow lights.
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Old 05-19-2017, 02:39 PM   #7
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Default R5/RD350 front end

I do believe the RD/DS7 DLS front brake should almost be a bolt-on. That is a DLS brake set-up (Double Leading Shoe).

Wrinkles would be that the R5/DS7 rim is an 18", and your DT360A is (standard) 21", so the speedometer will be off until you can figure out bits to change that.

Another option, if you really want a disc, is to look for a second-hand RD350 front end. Again, without checking for you, I really believe that this would work. The triple clamps are very similar, and I would not be at all surprised to find that the two bikes share fork seal sizes and fork tube diameters. If that turns out to be true, then one could simply remove the fork tube assemblies completely, and slot the RD set in.

If you were wanting to keep the DT 21" rim, and longer fork tubes, then I think you would be just playing mix-n-match with the lower legs.

I do have both a 360A and RD350 in my possession, as well as a '73 RD250 with the drum brake, so I will go measure the fork tube diameters for you.

I'm sure that this will have some members saying I don't know what I'm talking about(), and that may have some truth to it. But as I was rebuilding the 360A I kept looking at the twins and thinking what a lot of similarity in some of the parts there was. And I know for a fact that the RD250/350 bronze swingarm bushings will slot right in, as I did it.

Will report back with fork tube diameters soon.
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Old 05-19-2017, 09:29 PM   #8
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Default Fork Tube List

You got me hinking I had seen a list of fork tube diameters and associated bike. I went searching and found it. It was on the 2strokeworld.com forum and was posted by warmseth. Wish I knew the original source so they could get credit for it. If someone knows please post their name or site here.

According to this list your hunch is correct nhsteve.

Motorcycle Fork Tube Diameters


MM MAKE MODEL
---- -------- ----------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
33 Honda CR-80R (84)
33 Honda CR-80R (85-86)
33 Honda TLR-200 (86-87) "Reflex"
33 Honda XL-200R (83-84)
33 Honda CMX-250C (85-87, 96-04)
33 Honda CMX-250C2 (99-00)
33 Honda TL-250K "Trials 250" (75-76)
33 Honda CB-350F/F1/G (72-74)
33 Honda CL-350 "Scrambler 350" (72-73)
33 Honda CB-360/T (75-76), CL-360K (74), CJ-360T (76-77)
33 Honda CJ-360T (76-77)
33 Honda CB-400A "Hondamatic" (78)
33 Honda CB-400A "Hondamatic" (78)
33 Honda CB-400T I & T II "Hawk" (78-79)
33 Honda CB-400T (80 From 2004662 - 81)
33 Honda CB-400T (80 To 2004661)
33 Honda CM-400A "Hondamatic" (79-81)
33 Honda CM-400T (79-81)
33 Honda CM-400E (80-81)
33 Honda CM-400T (79-80 To 2114344)
33 Honda CB-450SC (82-86)
33 Honda CM-450A/E (82-83)
33 Honda CX-500 (78-79), CX-500C (79), CX-500D (79)
33 Honda CX-500C "Custom" (80)
33 Honda CX-500C "Custom" (80)
33 Kawasaki KX-65A1-A5 (00-04)
33 Kawasaki KX-80E1 (83)
33 Kawasaki KX-80E2/E3 (84-85)
33 Kawasaki KZ-305A1/A2 "CSR" (81-82)
33 Kawasaki KZ-400A1/A2 "Deluxe" (77-78)
33 Kawasaki KZ-400C1 (78)
33 Kawasaki KZ-400H1 "Ltd" (79)
33 Kawasaki KZ-440A1 "Ltd" (80)
33 Kawasaki KZ-440A2-A4 "Ltd" (81-83)
33 Kawasaki KZ-440D1 "Ltd" (80)
33 Kawasaki KZ-440D2-D4 "Ltd" (81-83)
33 Suzuki RM-65K3/K4 (03-04)
33 Suzuki RM-80 G/H/J (86-88)
33 Suzuki GN-250 Z/D (82-83)
33 Suzuki GS-250 TT/TX (80-81)
33 Suzuki GT-250 K/L/M/A/B "Hustler" (73-77)
33 Suzuki GS-300 LZ/LD (82-83)
33 Suzuki GT-380 J/K "Sebring" (72-73)
33 Suzuki GT-380 L/M/A/B "Sebring" (74-77)
33 Suzuki GS-400 B/XB (77)
33 Suzuki GS-400 C/XC (78)
33 Suzuki GS-425 N/EN (79)
33 Suzuki GS-450 ET/ST/EX/SX/EZ/ED (80-83)
33 Suzuki GS-450 GAZ/GAD (82-83)
33 Suzuki GS-450 LT/LX/LZ (80-82)
33 Suzuki GS-450 TX/TZ/TXZ/TXD(81-83)
33 Yamaha YZ-80 K/L/N/S/T/U/W/A/B/D (83-92)
33 Yamaha BW-200 ES/ET/EU (86-88)
33 Yamaha TW-200 T/TC/U/UC/W/WC/A/AC/B/BC/D/DC/E/EC "Trailway" (87-93)
33 Yamaha TW-200 F/FC/G/GC/H/HC/J/JC/EK/EKC "Trailway" (94-98)
33 Yamaha TW-200 L/LC/M/MC/N/NC/P/PC/R/RC/S/SC (99-04)
33 Yamaha SRX-250 T/TC (87)
33 Yamaha XV-250 U/UC/W/WC/A/AC (88-90)
33 Yamaha XV-250 G/GC/H/HC/J/JC/K/KC/L/LC (95-99)
33 Yamaha BW-350 U (88)
33 Yamaha XS-360 C/D/2D (76-77)
33 Yamaha XS-400 D/E/2E/F/2F/G/H (77-81)
33 Yamaha XS-400 SG/SH (80-81)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
34 Suzuki T 250
34 Suzuki T-250 II
34 Suzuki TM-250 J/K (72-73)
34 Suzuki TS-250 R/J/K/L/M/A "Savage" (71-76)
34 Suzuki TC-305
34 Suzuki T-350 1 / 2
34 Suzuki TM-400 R "Cyclone" (71)
34 Suzuki TM-400 J "Cyclone" (72)
34 Suzuki TS-400 J/K/L/M/A/B "Apache" (72-77)
34 Suzuki T-500 1/2/3, T-500M (75)
34 Yamaha YZ-100 C (76)
34 Yamaha MX-125 C (76)
34 Yamaha YZ-125 C (76)
34 Yamaha DT-250 A/B/C (74-76)
34 Yamaha DT-250 D/E (77-78)
34 Yamaha DT1/1B/1S/1C/1C-MX (68-70)
34 Yamaha DT1E/1MX (71)
34 Yamaha MX-250/A/B (73-75)
34 Yamaha TY-250 A/C/D (74, 76-77)
34 Yamaha RD-350/A/B (73-75)
34 Yamaha DT-360 A (74)
34 Yamaha YZ-360 A/B (74-75)
34 Yamaha DT-400 B/C/D/E (75-78)
34 Yamaha MX-400 B (75)
34 Yamaha SC-500/A (73-74)
34 Yamaha TX-500/A/ XS-500B (73-75)
34 Yamaha XS1/1B/2/TX-650 (71-73)
34 Yamaha XS1/1B/2/ TX-650 (70-73)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
35 Honda CR-80R (87-95)
35 Honda CR-125M "Elsinore" (76)
35 Honda CR-125M "Elsinore" (77-78)
35 Honda NX-125 (88-90)
35 Honda XR-200R (81-83)
35 Honda CL72 "Scrambler 250"
35 Honda CR-250M/M1 "Elsinore" (73, 75-76)
35 Honda MR-250 "Elsinore" (76)
35 Honda VTR-250 "Interceptor VTR" (88-90)
35 Honda XL-250 "Motosport 250" (72, 74-76)
35 Honda XL-250S (78-80 To 5204066)
35 Honda XL-250S (80 From 5204067 - 81)
35 Honda XR-250 (79-80)
35 Honda CL77 "Scrambler 305"
35 Honda SL-350 "Motosport 350" (72)
35 Honda XL-350 (74-78)
35 Honda CL-450 "Scrambler" (69-72)
35 Honda CB-450 (70-74)
35 Honda CB-500 "500 Four" (71-73)
35 Honda CX-500C "Custom" (81-82)
35 Honda GB-500 (89-90)
35 Honda GL-500/I (81-82)
35 Honda XL-500S (79-80 To 5104835)
35 Honda XL-500S (80- 81)
35 Honda CB-550 "550 Four K" (74-78)
35 Honda CB-650 (79-80)
35 Honda CB-650 (81-82)
35 Honda CB-650C (80 To 2009951)
35 Honda CB-750K (69)
35 Honda CB-750 "750 Four" (70, 72)
35 Honda CB-750A "750 Hondamatic" (76-78)
35 Honda CB-750C "Custom" (80-82)
35 Honda CB-750F "Super Sport" (75-78)
35 Honda CB-750F (79-80)
35 Honda CBX (79-80)
35 Kawasaki KX-80 G1/G2 (86-87)
35 Kawasaki KX-80 L1-L3/N1-N3 (88-90)
35 Kawasaki KE-175D1-D4 (80-83)
35 Kawasaki EX-250E1/E2 "Ninja" (86-87)
35 Kawasaki KE-250B1-B3 (77-79)
35 Kawasaki KZ-550H1/H2 "GP" (82-83)
35 Kawasaki ZX-550A1-A3 "GPz" (84-86)
35 Suzuki RM-80 K/L/M/N/P (89-93)
35 Suzuki RM-80 R/S/T/V/W/X/Y/K1 (94-01)
35 Suzuki RM-100 N/T/X (79-81)
35 Suzuki DR-125 G/H/J (86-88)
35 Suzuki DR-125 SER/SES/SET (94-96)
35 Suzuki RM-125 M/A (75-76)
35 Suzuki SP-125 G/H/J (86-88)
35 Suzuki DR-200 G/H/J (86-88)
35 Suzuki DR-200 SET/SEV/SEW/SEX/SEY/SEK1/SEK2/SK3 (96-03)
35 Suzuki RL-250 L/M "Exacta" (74-75)
35 Suzuki SP-250 Z/D/F (82-83, 85)
35 Suzuki TS-250 1 "Savage" (69)
35 Suzuki TS-250 B/C/N (77-79)
35 Suzuki GN-400 T/XT/XX/TX/TZ (80-82)
35 Suzuki TM-400 K/L/M "Cyclone" (73-75)
35 Suzuki GS-450 LD (83)
35 Suzuki GS-450 LF/LG/LH/LJ (85-88)
35 Suzuki GT-500 A/B "Titan" (76-77)
35 Suzuki RE-5M, A
35 Suzuki GS-550 LX/ LZ (81-82)
35 Suzuki GS-550 B/C/EC (77-78)
35 Suzuki GS-550 LN/LT (79-80)
35 Suzuki GS-550 LG (86)
35 Suzuki GT-550 J/K "Indy" (72-73)
35 Suzuki GT-550 K (KAYABA)/ L (73-74)
35 Suzuki GR-650 D/XD "Tempter" (83)
35 Suzuki GS-650 EX/EZ(81-82)
35 Suzuki GS-650 GLX/GLZ/GLD(81-83)
35 Suzuki GS-750 B/C/EC (77-78)
35 Suzuki GS-750 EX/EZ (81-82)
35 Suzuki GS-750 LT/LX (80-81)
35 Suzuki GS-750 TZ/TD (82-83)
35 Suzuki GT-750 J/K/L/M/A/B "Lemans" (72-77)
35 Yamaha YZ-100 G/H (80-81)
35 Yamaha IT-125 H (81)
35 Yamaha RT-180A/B/C (90-93)
35 Yamaha XT-200 J/K/KC (82-83)
35 Yamaha XT-250 G/H/J/K/KC (80-83)
35 Yamaha TZ-250 C/D/E (76-78)
35 Yamaha TZ-250 F (79)
35 Yamaha RZ-350 L/N/NC/NCII (84-85)
35 Yamaha TZ-350 /C/D/E (72-78)
35 Yamaha XS-400 J/K "Maxim" (82-83)
35 Yamaha SR-500 E/F/G/H (78-81)
35 Yamaha XS-500 C/D/E (76-78)
35 Yamaha XJ-550 RH/RJ/RK "Seca" (81-83)
35 Yamaha XZ-550 RJ/RK "Vision" (82-83)
35 Yamaha XS-650 D/E/F/2F (77-79)
35 Yamaha XS-650 SE/SF/SG/SH/SJ (78-82)
35 Yamaha TX-750/A (73-74)
35 Yamaha XS-750 D (77)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------
36, 37 Removed due to the character count.
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Old 05-23-2017, 07:56 AM   #9
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That's a good list. Had not heard of that site, so will save it for later. Thank you.

The list is correct as far as I can see for Yamahas. Just so I can say that I did follow up, the DT360A, DT400B, TY250, RD250, 350, 400, and TX650A in my garage all have 34mm tubes, the '77 & '78 XS650s have 35mm tubes.

So it would be a pretty straight-forward swap to drop in a RD disc brake fork setup into the triple clamps of the DT360A.

Super-moto, anyone?
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Old 05-23-2017, 09:08 AM   #10
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If you do a swap front ends, be mindful of the fork length also. Try to keep the same length as originals. Longer / shorter will change the handling characteristics of the bike dramatically - could even make it dangerous if the difference is large.
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